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Are there some challenges that keep on appearing along the way? I never had a stable company, a space or a theatre to work in. Not that it was a big challenge but I never had dancers for a longer time, that we could live and work together with. That has somehow never appeared I did not claim it but now I think, it would not be bad.

Thinking about challenge I often wonder which of the territories I worked with such as installation, theatre or film have been most challenging for me. I still don't know. I am also curious about some spaces l never really went to like ballet or opera, I wonder how interesting that would be.

On that level, I will now organise a dance congress in Germany in and that is for me like super new and challenging. In a way, I am getting some air which is a good thing.

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I still have touring but, other than that, I will have some space and time to just see what is happening. I think that improvised movie would be amazing but, again that is nothing concrete. Nothing planned for a year but then, of course, I would not know what else to do so something will happen. Maybe something related to a school but it would have to be with a different than usual approach to teaching. I already have some ideas, still very fresh but present.

I would like it to be something more mobile, something you cannot just learn in a closed studio of HZT or P. I have these ideas for more of a mystery school where you would go to, let's say, an older person to teach you his truths and experiences. Where in small groups you would be intensively handed down knowledge of the world and then have breaks. Instead of just taking things from, you will learn through being in a presence of a person. Like this, your soul and body would have physical experience rather than imagining it or watching it on YouTube.

Some of it could be exotic but not only. I just believe that there must be a knowledge that can be thought but it does not exist right now. To create some sort of bank of experience where you can be in, that would be great. I am so curious! I want to just do that now! Just before you said that for a year you have no plans but after you probably won't know what to do so you will create.

Is that some sort of breathing for you? It surely not as easy as breathing. The last pieces were really challenging and made me question a activer la pousse des cheveux m pokora belgique of things. I also have to think about my life that I missed when I was in a studio. I now question a balance between all this.

Then a click happens. Or now when I talk to you, I feel I am in it but when you would switch the recording off, it would immediately feel different. When I am in the studio something happens and I can guide and of course, I sometimes have to think of what I will do in the studio but that is not very often. When I am outside of the studio I am not thinking that I want to make art, I am not really busy with it.

I guess If I would analyse it I would do much less. It sounds a bit romantic but it is just, you know, it is something strange. Gisteravond was er een rouwstoet in Nablus. De gepantserde voertuigen van het Israëlische bezettingsleger rolden door de straten. Mensen begonnen met stenen te gooien. Er vielen 52 gewonden en één dode. Vandaag heeft het leger de stad afgesloten. Rimah Jabr zucht. Elke dag weer. Als je daar bent voel je het niet eens echt. Tot het je lukt om naar buiten te reizen en ergens anders aan te komen.

Dan pas besef je hoeveel tijd je hebt verloren. Rimah woonde 32 jaar in Palestina. Het inhalen van de tijd die ze kwijt is is de drijfveer achter haar verbazende productiviteit. Vervolgens doorliep ze de opleiding Dramatische Kunsten aan het Regime dukan gigot 2.5kg, schreef vier toneelteksten, die ze ook zelf opvoerde, voordat ze voor de liefde naar Toronto verhuisde.

Op dit moment werkt ze aan een nieuwe voorstelling, Broken Shapesmet beeldend kunstenaar Dareen Abbas. Infini 5 is het resultaat van de samenwerking met Decoratelier, het Brusselse collectief onder leiding van scenograaf Jozef Wouters, en dramaturg Jeroen Peeters.

Sinds de eerste presentatie, als onderdeel van de voorstelling Infini in de Brusselse KVS inwas het werk reeds te zien in Gent, Ramallah, Lissabon, en binnenkort ook in Oostende. Ik maakte pas laat mijn entree in het theater. Dus ik ben altijd bang geweest om nog meer tijd te verliezen. Ik sta voor mijn gevoel nog steeds aan het begin van mijn loopbaan.

Dat verklaart misschien die productiviteit. En ik ben toch al niet heel geduldig. Als ik zit te schrijven heb ik de rust niet om te redigeren. Ik wil dat de eerste versie meteen perfect is, wat natuurlijk niet kan — nu pas leer ik om het rustiger aan te doen, geduld te oefenen en echt aan de tekst te werken.

Dat woedende ongeduld is moeilijk voor te stellen als je, zittend in het theater, Rimah de brief hoort voorlezen die Infini 5 voortdraagt. Haar stem klinkt kalm en beschouwend. Ze spreekt tot Jozef Wouters, die haar vroeg om hem te schrijven over haar keuze voor het thema van tunnels en eindeloosheid, alsof ze hardop aan het nadenken is. Ver weg in tijd en afstand is ze in staat om te bespiegelen op de tijd die ze kwijt is geraakt, toen ze woonde in Nablus, een grote Palestijnse stad op de West Bank: Dertig jaar van een leven dat ze doorbracht onder een systeem dat ontworpen was om elk besef van normaliteit te ondermijnen.

Die observatie treft me: voor mij als buitenstaander lijkt Palestina juist de meest echte plaats ter wereld. Ik zag het gebeuren met Jozef, toen hij me bezocht in Nablus.

Alles is er zo werkelijk, dat je alleen maar kan denken dat het niet echt waar is. Het lijkt teveel op fictie. Alsof je in een film bent beland, of in een roman. Maar als je dagelijks leeft in een situatie die zo moeilijk vol te houden is, dan begint je brein een uitweg te zoeken uit deze werkelijkheid.

Want als je jezelf zou toestaan om echt te beseffen wat voor leven je leidt, telkens opnieuw, dan denk ik niet dat je brein het zou kunnen hebben. Het is gewoon botox oscars 2014. Het dwingt je brein zich uit te schakelen.

Je kan niet anders dan ontsnappen aan die werkelijkheid, om met de onmogelijkheid ervan te kunnen leven. Rimah had Jozef Wouters eerst ontmoet in het Decoratelier in Brussel. De hele ervaring, voor het eerst getoond in de KVS, was zo indrukwekkend dat Infini werd geselecteerd voor het Vlaamse Theaterfestival.

En de bijdrage van Rimah Jabr was misschien wel de meest memorabele. Tijdens dat eerste gesprek was haar keuze van landschap onmiddellijk: Tunnels. Later, toen Jozef voor het eerst de West Bank en Nablus bezocht en de muur zag, de checkpoints, de helverlichte en zwaarbewaakte nederzettingen op de heuvels, het beknelde leven in de Palestijnse steden, vroeg hij haar opnieuw: Waarom tunnels?

Rimah antwoordde hem met een brief die spreekt over de eindeloosheid, het gevoel dat je voorgoed verder kan lopen zonder ooit licht in de verte te zien, het gewicht van de wereld die langzaam om zijn as draait, ergens hoog boven je. Voor wij die buiten Palestina leven is het moeilijk de claustrofobie voor te stellen van het bestaan in een land waar een eenvoudige verplaatsing van de ene kant van de stad naar de andere, laat staan van de ene stad naar de volgende, je stelselmatig confronteert met wegversperringen, waar het Israëlische leger naar willekeur kan kiezen of het je doorlaat of tegenhoudt.

Net zoals het feit dat ze je dwingen je tijd te verliezen. Als de trein in België tien minuten te laat is worden mensen kwaad, omdat ze te laat dreigen te komen op school of op kantoor. Stel je voor dat iemand de volledige heerschappij heeft over je tijd.

Erger nog, het is alimentation pour maigrir interdit xml een kwestie van leven of dood. Bij het checkpoint sta je oog in oog met jonge mensen die wapens dragen.

En ook al stelen ze tijd van je, je moet rustig blijven en glimlachen. Een onverwachte beweging of een woede-uitbarsting kan je je leven kosten. Dat is de paradox: Zij zijn paranoïde maar bezitten de macht, jij bent boos maar moet rationeel blijven. Een soldaat die een man beveelt voor hem te dansen, anders mag hij er niet door.

De man danst. Een vrouw die van haar kind bevalt in de auto van haar man, voor een checkpoint. Ze mochten niet verder naar het ziekenhuis, hoe de man ook smeekte. Die checkpoints zijn er niet echt voor de veiligheid; ze maken deel maigrir he citron quantité van de systematische vernedering van mensen, een systeem dat ze klein en bang houdt.

Terwijl ze de brief schreef voor Infini 5, in antwoord op de vragen waarmee Jozef haar bleef bestoken, begon Rimah te beseffen hoe sterk deze ervaringen haar werk tot nu toe hebben gevormd.

Two Ladybugs gaat over drie mensen in coma, die elkaar ontmoeten in een wereld voorbij het leven. Een van hen is een Israëlische soldaat die de andere twee heeft doodgeschoten. The Prisoner gaat over iemand die in zijn hoofd blijft vastzitten, ook nadat hij is vrijgelaten uit de gevangenis. Mijn derde stuk gaat over een echtpaar dat klem zit in een appartement dat op het punt staat verwoest te worden door het Israëlische leger.

Het heeft allemaal te maken met het bestaan dat ik heb geleid, toen ik opgroeide in Nablus, de checkpoints, de verloren tijd, toen ik me lamlendig en hulpeloos voelde, niet in staat om ook maar ergens iets aan te doen. Het is niet dat je geen tijd hebt — we hadden tijd te over, we deden letterlijk helemaal niets, we bleven thuis, we aten en keken televisie. Maar al die tijd werd jarenlang gewoon vergooid.

Omdat elke dag de stad, de winkels en de scholen zomaar gesloten konden worden — net zoals Nablus vandaag weer platgelegd is. Als kinderen vonden we het leuk als er weer eens een uitgaansverbod werd afgekondigd. Dan hoefden we niet naar school en bleven gewoon weer een week thuis. Later, toen ik opgroeide, werd die leegte bijna een verslaving.

Rimah heeft zichzelf altijd fysiek op het toneel geplaatst, in de stukken die ze schreef en regisseerde. Ook in Infini 5 is ze nadrukkelijk aanwezig, maar deze keer alleen met haar stem. Mijn stem is er. Ik hoef er zelf niet te staan. Wat we op het toneel zien is al zo mooi. Dit gaat niet over mij persoonlijk. Het gaat erom mensen de eindeloosheid te laten ervaren, terwijl ze luisteren naar mijn beschrijving ervan.

Intussen kijken ze naar een kathedraal van palmbomen, geïnspireerd door Bosco di Palme van de Italiaanse architect Giovanni Carlo Galli-Bibiena. Jozef Wouters stelde haar voor deze ets te gebruiken en zijn Decoratelier-team verrichtte het monnikenwerk om er dertien kopieën van te maken, elke kopie kleiner dan de vorige.

Alles wat ze nodig hadden was papier, lijm, tape — en tijd, heel veel tijd. Het resultaat: een scenografie slechts ontworpen voor het oog van de toeschouwer. Ruimte voor spelers is er niet.

En omdat het Galli-Bibiena was die als eerste het verdwijnpunt iets naast het midden plaatste, raakt de kijkende blik gevangen in een eindeloos vergezicht.

Er is geen einde, je bent onderweg naar nergens, maar je blijft lopen. Chris Keulemans reizende schrijver en journalist uit Amsterdam, deelnemer aan Infini But before that she will stop in Brussels, the city where she founded her company, with her latest performance Blessed. Teresa De Keersmaeker, who have all received this prestigious award. Meg Stuart has in common with De Keersmaeker that she works in Brussels.

And I thought that the conditions were better here, for creation in the long term. I had received quite a lot of support, allowing me to focus on my research, without having to look for a day job, like when I was in New York. But I never planned on living in Belgium. Nowadays, Meg Stuart lives in Berlin but she has not left the Belgian capital, as Damaged Goods is still based here and the choreographer returns time and again, among others because of her strong ties with the Kaaitheater.

This is also where she premiered her most recent show, Celestial Sorrow, this past January. In the framework of Europalia Indonesia, she travelled to the country to meet the transdisciplinary artist Jompet Kuswidanto.

Like a metaphor for transformation, for how things that are concealed can rise to the surface, the performance obviously refers to the decades of bloody dictatorship under President Suharto. The three dancers were dressed by Jean-Paul Lespagnard, striking a balance between kitsch and an evocation of an invisible world that we fail to notice. The intrepid Brussels designer among others chose to make the performer Gaëtan Rusquet wear shoes whose triangular sole forced him into a constant balancing act, which also impacted the way he moved and danced.

And sometimes his proposals can be quite extreme. But the choreographer has several other long-standing collaborators. Jan Maertens for lighting, Tim Etchells for the text, with whom she is still touring with Shown and ToldChris Kondek for video… They have already created several productions with her. Whether recurring or one-offs, all her collaborations require invited artists to accept to move their practice. The result is the sum of a series of affinities and tensions.

And they must also be capable of improvising during the process. Improvisation provides a space where you can test things, where you can play. You start out in an unknown space without any idea of what you will find there. You discover the work together, and this requires a certain mindset, a certain way of thinking, to experience freedom. Blessedwhich will soon be revived at the Kaaitheater, is performed by Francisco Camacho who already worked with Stuart on Disfigure Study.

In the show, the Portuguese dancer moves among cardboard silhouettes, including a palm tree, a giant swan and a hut. They will gradually collapse and dissolve under the rain that falls from above. A slow devastation that refers to the damage caused by Hurricane Katrina inwhich made hundreds of victims in New Orleans, where Meg Stuart was born.

Ten years later, this remains a very topical subject. How do you respond when you believe one thing and the circumstances push you to believe something else? Meg Stuart always tries to express the unspeakable, whether her creations are extremely abstract, like Violetor rooted in a very specific context, like Do Animals Cry on family relations. Il y avait des chorégraphes très intéressants comme Alain Platel et Anne Teresa. Et puis, je pensais que les conditions seraient meilleures ici pour créer sur le long terme.

Métaphore sur la transformation et sur la manière dont ce qui a été enfoui peut rejaillir à la surface, le spectacle faisait une allusion claire aux décennies de dictature sanglante du président Suharto. Jan Maertens pour les lumières, Tim Etchells pour les textes, avec qui elle tourne encore dans Shown and ToldChris Kondek pour la vidéo Si Meg Stuart a ses fidèles, elle aime en tout cas multiplier les collaborations.

Dans le spectacle, le danseur portugais se meut au milieu de silhouettes en carton figurant un palmier, un cygne géant et une sorte de cahute. Le titre Béni traduit une attitude particulière dans ces circonstances : une solide confiance en cet univers, la foi. Comment réagir quand on croit en quelque chose mais que les circonstances vous poussent à croire le contraire? A croiser les disciplines, la chorégraphe américaine a toujours su repousser les limites de la danse contemporaine.

La danse est un médium important parce que critique, un médium qui décortique les contradictions et qui résiste aux définitions simplistes. La danse ne réfute pas la complexité. Toutes les vérités portent en leur sein leur contraire. Dans mes premiers travaux, je trouvais plus compliqué de trouver des solutions.

Accros au démantèlement des choses et au chaos. Celestial Sorrow refuse de distribuer des blâmes ou de pointer du doigt. La pièce contourne les impasses intellectuelles du débat postcolonial — elle essaie plutôt de peindre par-dessus, de rappeler que la responsabilité comme la tristesse sont partagées, et que finalement tout est question de perspective. On danse pour le même genre de raison que certains prennent des drogues. Je crois que cela peut nous rendre plus ouverts et compassionnels, nous apprendre à mieux écouter et mieux regarder.

Est-ce aussi vrai des arts visuels et du cinéma, ou spécifique à la danse? Le langage est sans fin, illimité. Alors enfiler une robe pourrait être de la danse.

Évidemment, les spécialistes voudraient que la danse mimique le mouvement de la vie quotidienne. Ses mouvements peuvent être abstraits, ou ultra esthétisés, le danseur doit respirer la vie, être sensible.

Il ne doit pas être vide ou toujours en démonstration. Les temps ont changé. Pourquoi ne faites-vous plus comment avant?

Je trouve ça dommage. Nous sommes sur Terre pour nous élever mutuellement, spontanément. Il faut parfois savoir irriter son public, lui mettre un miroir là où ça fait mal. Je suis née à La Nouvelle-Orléans. Blessed a une qualité minimaliste et une sorte de sévérité singulière qui dialogue avec mes premières pièces. Son message est toujours actuel : la pièce traite du débat éthique qui entoure notre gestion du changement climatique.

Une photographe? Une religieuse fanatique? Une SDF? Une psychotique? Mais je ne savais même pas ce que ça voulait dire! To cross disciplines, the American choreographer has always pushed the boundaries of contemporary dance. Whether it is by putting her finger on the sore spot, or to alter the conscience of its spectators, she continues to believe in the critical power of her art. What do you think of this statement today? Dance does not refute complexity, however. On the contrary even, it acknowledges its benefits and urges us to embrace them.

All truth contains the opposite of truth. In my early works, it seemed more difficult to find solutions. I sometimes think that we are all addicted to suffering. To the dismantling of things and to chaos. It is important that you come up with proposals in addition to being very critical. This was a collective effort, a celebration of collaboration. We need them to be able to experience them together, to define the body, the objects together, among ourselves and with the audience. Celestial Sorrow refuses to put the blame on someone or to single someone out.

This choreography sidesteps the intellectual stalemates of the post-colonial debate. Instead it attempts to paint on top of it, to remind us that responsibility and sorrow are shared, and that ultimately everything is just a matter of perspective. Having said that, improvisation, trance, various states, or the reproduction of a gesture may allow you physically to approach those states that have been described by neuroscience, quantum physics or research about memory. It can be a very euphoric experience, and I think that most people have no idea that dance can transform reality like this.

We dance for the same kind of reasons that people take drugs. I think that dance can make us more open, more compassionate, can teach us to listen and look more attentively. My artistic creations always look at how social relationships are changing.

It is important that you interpret dance in its widest possible sense. Language is endless, unlimited. Our interpretation of the notion of dance must also be very flexible. Is contemporary dance defined by the intensity or the quality of the movement, rather than by the movement itself.

Because in that sense the mere act of putting on a dress could be dance. Before, it was all very traditional. Cunningham or Trisha Brown, for example, had very clear styles, defined spaces in which to explore movement. Obviously, specialists want dance to mimic the movements of our daily life.

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Everything is movement, in the way it is thought, executed and understood. What can a show never be? Are there things you absolutely refuse to include in your shows?

My first choreography in Europe is over twenty years old, I was just 26 years old. I always try to create spaces that raise questions without wanting to provide the answers, or resolving things.

Even though movements can be abstract, or ultra-aesthetic, dancers must exude life, must be sensitive. They should not be empty vessels, or bodies that demonstrate something. I like a sense of danger. Times have changed. Now your dancers are just dancing! I saw beggars and mutilated bodies. The world is going from bad to worse. Artists must choose whether they wish to represent the world as they see it or as they would like it to be. This is our ultimate goal. So sometimes you need to irritate your audience, to hold up a mirror to them where it hurts.

On other occasions, you must propose alternatives. Art has the right to get it wrong, but you cannot get caught up in what is politically correct or stick to traditional approaches. Sometimes the result can be quite perturbing and the spectator may not agree with you.

This is a very special choreography for you, right? I was born in New Orleans. Unlike most of my choreographies, which are usually a collage, this piece has a linear structure, the action is very direct. Blessed has a very minimalist quality and a singular severity, which engages in a dialogue with my earliest choreographies. The message is still very relevant today. This choreography deals with the ethical debate about how we approach climate change.

How to reconcile climatic instability and the resulting vulnerability with our habit of thinking that life is good, that we are safe? Nature is just one of many factors that can overturn our reality. If this piece did not broach these issues, people would stop inviting me to perform!

We all think that we understand the world around us, and this is a very precious sentiment. But I think that we should also try to understand with all our senses, with our nervous system. A voyage is a way of transcending our rational mind. Art is another way of achieving this. Analysing a performance is not enough. You must feel it, let it engage in a dialogue with our subconscious. A photographer? A religious fanatic? A homeless person?

A psycho? But I had no idea whatsoever what this meant! Hans Ulrich Obrist talks to the choreographer Meg Stuart about rituals, improvisation and ecstasy. Hans Ulrich Obrist : Ecstasy, transcendence and endurance are fascinating themes because, as I see it, they evoke an image of art being a portal you have to pass through.

But before we get to that, let me ask you how it all began. How did you arrive at dance and choreography — was it a kind of epiphany?

Meg Stuart : I grew up in a theatre, and I think that certainly played a big role. Both my parents are theatre directors. Having the chance to see so many plays, watch dancers and actors up close, made an impression on me. First, I got into sports, like running track; the physical aspect was important. Then I started getting more involved in dance, and at some point, I let the running go.

I did dancer studies — standing, sitting, lying — looking carefully at each part of the body, breaking it down piece by piece. First, I had to build a structure and technique around me in order to realise the things I imagined.

Up until then I had been working years on various short studies in New York and these explorations came together in Disfigure Study It was this first evening piece that launched me into the scene in Europe.

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They told me that New Orleans is so spiritual that it radiates something transcendental and the people there relate to one another in a very special way. Stuart : I was quite young when I left New Orleans. I can remember the hurricanes and Mardi Gras, but not much more than that. My parents often took me to classical concerts. I created my own little world, a space where I could control things. One of your first pieces that came to my attention was No Longer Readymade — a piece that deeply resonated with the art world.

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Can you tell us something about what went into No Longer Readymade? Stuart : It was my second piece, and maybe it was born out of crisis. Creating a second work while on tour with the first, getting a lot of attention very fast, being pulled out of New York and diving into the European festival scene — that was a lot to handle at one time.

The centrepiece of this work is a solo. What do you expect from this? My previous piece Disfigure Study was like a long research project on distortion and fragmenting the body and playing with physicality and light. The piece opens with a dancer, Benoît Lachambre, shaking his head violently for about four and a half minutes and then gesturing feverishly.

Then he starts shaking and does the whole thing in reverse. When we started rehearsing the piece, he vomited in the studio. Only after several rehearsals was he able to perform it. How do we use these kinds of involuntary physical responses as dance material?

It was then that I integrated physical and emotional states into the choreography. Obrist : This piece seems to go beyond the rational; there are irrational forces that come into play. Andrei Tarkowski once said that we need to re-introduce rituals because they have disappeared from the modern world. In your work it clearly has a positive connotation.

I was wondering about when the subject of ecstasy entered your work. When you started, it must have been quite unusual, right? Stuart : From a Western perspective, I think rituals are things we do out of habit, if not by choice. Rituals are a series of intention-driven actions, just like with magic. Your actions have a certain intention, and you expect a certain outcome. Going to the theatre is a ritual as well.

We know that everything is influencing our nervous system and our electromagnetic field. The question is, how do we deal with it, how do we purge ourselves of it, what thoughts are our own and which are not, and how do we work with these forces?

To a certain degree, improvisation is present in all your works. As you mentioned about your second piece, No Longer Readymade, improvisation was a gateway to all these different states and sometimes ecstatic states Stuart : One inspiration for my last piece Celestial Sorrow was the very repetitive music of a Jathilan ritual I saw in Indonesia. It was a remarkable performance on the outskirts of Yogyakarta.

The dancers performed very simple, minute ritualised movements with their arms. Suddenly they seemed possessed and fell into a trance Some things happened in front of you, and other things backstage. The dancers would take off their costumes and come back in something more pedestrian. Was it all just preparation for that moment of release, the freeing of these dark energies?

I found it all very contemporary and very complex. So we started crafting our own version together with two musicians. The dancers also go through a kind of trance. I think we all want to escape the reality of our daily lives. We all want to feel that we merge with something else, that we overcome the borders between us and the others.

We can take drugs or get high on music and repetition, or lock ourselves in a room and concentrate on our own breathing I think we all have that wish to work on higher realms, to have a more singular focus, to be less absent-minded and distracted. It also had to do with this very different state. As in your earlier pieces, you often focus on the notion of exhaustion and how exhaustion can lead to a transcendental state Stuart Actually, I think we sometimes like being exhausted.

Exhaustion is either a wish or a problem, but it can also be a strategy — a strategy of art-making. You tell someone: look at this, now look at it again, and again Insisting on being accountable for where we are. Obrist : Improvisation was a theme best rides at luna park both explored in Laboratorium — our first collaboration in Stuart : Laboratorium was an incredibly imprecise study that examined the relationship of performance and research, science and research, and art and research.

It was the basis for an improvisation, the last piece of a longer project titled Crash Landing, which I put on in Moscow in We were lots of artists, many of whom were Russians, and the space we chose was way too small for all of us — it was rather uncomfortable.

The work was about the future, about the body of the future, and how we see ourselves in the future. Each performer could suggest things. We were not concerned with individual authorship, but rather a collective working method where everything was mixed, alliances were formed and questions were jointly investigated Looking back, I can see it as quite radical in its haphazard methodology of insisting on collaborative encounter through improvisational performance, considering the invitation and the context.

Obrist : It was also about demarcation — between the stage and the world, if you will Stuart : Dance that is meant to be performed is about a set of principles or proposals that is shared with taille prothèses mammaires audience. Shamanistic practice and rituals are grounded on service and intention.

Shamans with spirit guides dive into other worlds to heal members of society. This is a service for the community. People go clubbing every weekend, an improvised dance ritual, in search of connection and release and ecstatic shared moments. It is clear that the codes of behaviour are very narrow even in places like Berghain and I can imagine there will be more and more hybrid undefined open spaces in the future for sharing, voicing, releasing and dancing as strategies of survival and healing. I am hoping that the Tanzkongress in Dresden can be such a lively, unconventional space for collective action and shared intention.

We are going to create a five-day gathering, somehow intricately and magically composed, that functions as a social choreography for meeting, exchange, conflict and transformation. A rave deconstructed and other variations of social dancing and encounter are essential to this meeting concept. The rave format in the Tanzkongress would commence early in the morning in that massive hall of Hellerau.

A charged political space in the daytime with the removal of the trope of nightlife. It would be a space where people could express themselves freely thanks to a different kind of receptivity. So, in this huge cavern of space, I want to create something fluid that shifts the pace so that eventually the music slows down, breaks down and another space of listening and presence emerges.

Obrist : Cedric Price and Joan Littlewood, who came up with the Fun Palace in the s, also described this idea of having moments of noise and silence. Suddenly the rave would fall silent — a rupture from fast to slow. So I love your idea.

InHortensia Völckers got me involved while they were mapping the future of the Federal Cultural Foundation. It was a utopian undertaking which she worked to make come true. And to this day, the Foundation still possesses this utopian vein. The Tanzkongress is also a kind of utopian undertaking. What kind of rituals are you planning for the Tanzkongress? In the first Tanzkongress the dance artists were passionately arguing and looking for definitions that would be unthinkable nowadays like what is dance, what a dancer should be, what is the purpose of dance now?

They also describe a legendary party where the whole congress came together at the end. I would have loved to witness that. As a curator, what advice would you give me? In the beginning, it was just me interviewing people for 24 hours, but that got lonely after a while, so I invited Rem Koolhaas to join me.

Little by little, it became more of a hybrid format with performances, talks, etc. The interesting thing about your idea, of course, is that people would come to listen to a neuroscientist talk and then see a contemporary artist.

Or they come to see the artist but would also hear what an architect had to say. This can help break down professional ghettos and avoid having only dance professionals attend. It was a social phenomenon when ordinary people in cities — not professional dancers — would dance and dance until they collapsed from exhaustion. There was an outbreak in in Aachen. Stuart : … Or debate mania!

Dancers know this, but it needs to be acknowledged in other areas — how certain movements can impact our consciousness. Obrist : Well, it appeals to all the senses. Margaret Mead once said that we need rituals that appeal to all the senses. I recently read a text by Dorothea von Hantelmann where she asked: What form of ritual corresponds to the life, the social structure of the early 21st century? How collective, how individualised, how rigid, how open, how liberal should such a structure be?

That seems to have some relevance for Dresden. Stuart : There will definitely be various forms of coming together and celebrating, but also coming together and mourning. The congress has a dramaturgy that covers a wide range of aspects and provides space for meditation and movement, but also discussions about non-violent communication, or social justice or the power of intention. It has made me think of your work Alibi which explores themes of fanaticism and violence.

Maybe you could change Dresden. Stuart : Maybe. I just heard about this German-Syrian artist Manaf Halbouni who erected three buses in front of the Dresden Frauenkirche. I would very much like to have a dialogue with the Dresden scene. I often talk about ethics and responsibility. Violet is a completely abstract piece that explores energetic patterns in nature. It features five dancers with five platonic bodies.

It was made at the time of the Arab Spring and the tsunami in Japan, and I asked myself: What causes change? At what moment is there a radical shift in thinking and how do we handle it? Normally you have all the time in the world for abstraction, it is something cold and masque maison anti ride yeux. You work with lines, forces, geometries, but here we were working with abstract movements under stress in a charged heated atmosphere. There was an urgency and a call.

That is why it felt extremely political. For many years and in different contexts I have created and held space for artists, musicians and dancers to exchange and meet. Questions and ideas were exchanged through shared actions and simply by sharing a working space together. I aim to create a dynamic working space of encounter for the extended dance community at the Tanzkongress. I started a project on Instagram which has to do with sketches and notebooks. Personally, I find it appalling that handwriting and doodling is disappearing.

So I decided to ask every artist at the end of an interview to write or sketch something that I can post on Instagram — a sentence, motto, a quote.

As one of the most influential dance and choreography artists since the s, she is best known for her highly energetic pieces in which performers embody the boisterous longing for presence in relationship to specific surroundings.

Meg Stuart grew up in California, studied in New York, lives with her son in Berlin and has her company Damaged Goods in Brussels, where her career began. In this interview, we dig into the history of some works that are no longer on the stage and try to find ways to speak about feelings. Astrid Kaminski: Is it okay if we speak about feelings? We could frame it within your piece, Maybe En combien de temps on peut perdre 10 kgin which you can undo everything in the future.

But despite being early I felt quite rested and fresh. My new love was invited to teach a workshop on happiness, so I wanted to feel connected by doing some research on happiness. Nothing very new. But you can rewrite the experiences of your life, and shifting perspectives about any narrative — not the facts — make people happy. That made me think about jazz music that riffs on standards. You have these standards, these songs, that are very familiar, but the musicians keep looking for their potential — something that you would not see, that is dormant.

They are not smashing the songs, but in a way expanding them. They are always rewriting, re-scripting, and collaging and in this way honouring the music, giving it a future momentum. I think it is about acceptance. I want to dig into the past for a while. After your first European piece, Disfigure Studyinyou immediately earned a name in dance. This piece is always cited, but I want to look at the one which came right after, inand was maybe more emotional.

What was your relation to Duchamp? The title Disfigure Study says what it was — deconstructing the figure — and somehow this continued. This also is dance. Yes, but also turning presence into absence by articulating gestures that trace the absence. Like holding a hand that is no longer there. You are such a trickster! I think the long silence you just gave is also an answer. Yet you will be receiving the Golden Lion for Lifetime Achievement at the Venice Biennale Danzawhich means someone is watching you.

A female interviewer asking a woman about her feelings! Please ask Tino Sehgal about his feelings! I cried. It was announced the day before my premiere of Celestial Sorrow [at Kaaitheater, ], which I made in collaboration with the visual artist Jompet Kuswidananto.

Through an installation of hundreds of lights, the work looks intensively at interior darkness and trauma, processed by voice performances by Claire Vivianne Sobottke, Gaëtan Rusquet, and Jule Flierl. So crying was not that inappropriate. Later we all took a yoga class and I continued crying. After this I made a drastic cut in the piece.

It brought the whole thing together. You are known for very intense rehearsal processes. You even formulated that making a piece is like living through a fiction together.

To be in such intense contact with a group of people for several months must be very difficult. How do you deal with everything that comes up? What strategies help you bring the process to a controlled explosion? I try not to obsess on the outcome too much and to take each rehearsal day as an aim in itself. The vocabulary we use in order to speak to each other and giving everyone space to get lost for a while are also quite important.

What is particular about family-like proximity is that everybody has their own rhythm. You have to compose out of this polyrhythmic situation. The process also seems to have an identity or aura of its own, so people come with the idea that they are entering an intensive work; they bring it with them.

And one more thing: I always work with the situation as such but also with a utopia. I like one of the fundamental statements in Are we here yet? But is it botox sprinkles 90s wish to be fully present?

Being really present is now more problematic than when this book was made. I am not that fascinated with the distractions, blockages, and irritations of not arriving.

It demands being with your body, being with what is already there. Maybe it is more about being-with than about being-there. This makes me think about the asymmetrical two stories house from your piece Visitors Only.

Were the two-stories stores connected to altered states in between external realities and internal feelings? The house was very playful with a lot of fantasy inferring with the movement.

The architecture made it very clear that you went from one state into another. The asymmetric spaces and incomplete and destroyed rooms supported these shifts. The house also had some aspects of Alice in Wonderland with tiny doors and slanting walls. But anyway, it was not a psycho-analytical house with the subconscious under the floor and so forth. There was more about the relationship between the house and the body — the body not only as a means of expression, but also as a meeting point of atmospheres and energies, where things are copied, traced, remembered etc.

Another influence and also collaborator was the video artist Gary Hill, with whom you worked for Splayed Mind Out This is said to be your first piece without concrete movement material. Does this mean that being moved replaces movement-instructions? Not totally.

I teach: Do a movement, let yourself be moved, and then imagine surrendering to your movement. Now be the agent of your movement, own it, and direct it. The way you shift your perception or consciousness between these two is what creates the dance, the way you allow things to happen and the way you shape them.

The dance is in the shift, but what makes you move? This is a question of how the person relates to the movement. How do you know or feel when it is there?

If a movement loses its known meaning, then it creates space for something else to appear. It is the action of taking something out of its pattern that holds the meaning. Being meaningful is not a state to be reached; it is like a train. There was also a big shift in my work in recent years. I became less focussed on states and rather started to speak about energy.

Does something have energy in itself or not? How can you trace energetic streams or vibrations, and how do you put that into form? The body is not a piano, you know? In the last couple of years, some big names from the field of choreography moved into the museum with their work, and you also explored different spaces. For example, with the surveillance and heterotopia Highway project fromyou went to visual art spaces, like a gallery in Rotterdam and the Centre Pompidou.

However, you did not really keep going in this direction. Is, for you, stage still the place? There were other things. But hard floors and little facilities for lighting are not really the ideal conditions for theatre work and often dancers are asked to perform under these conditions. Yet I am interested in observing how the museum context changes the choreography. Under Castorf you have been an associated artist of Volksbühne from to What did you feel about what was going wrong with choosing Chris Dercon for director and kicking him out again?

Did all these aggressions bother you? Of course everything after Castorf would have been very difficult. I have to say I did not go fully into what Volksbühne represents for whom and why they reacted the way they did. Simply spoken I supported the artists that Dercon had invited. Meanwhile Castorf was not that interested in dance anymore.

This is hard to say. I have not touched opera yet, but do I want to? For sure I would love to make an improvised film in an intimate setting, inspired by John Cassavetes, with many brilliant dance artists in it. Maybe I can also say one thing about daring: What I like is the moment in art when vulnerability is not something uncomfortable but something shared.

Daar waar alles nog moet gebeuren, dwalen ze samen door wat is, wat verlangd wordt en wat komen kan. Aan het kanaal Brussel-Charleroi is er ter hoogte van de Ninoofsepoort een kleine hefbrug. Dat ze heft, valt me voor het eerst op, nu ik er voor haar gesloten slagboom sta en ik water zie, waar voordien weg was.

Het doet mij denken aan iets wat Leuvens scenograaf Jozef Wouters ooit schreef in het tweede nummer van Oogst magazine. Hij had het over hoe elke constructie een verlangen uitdrukt, over een felgekleurd betongewicht dat wél en ook géén last wilde zijn.

Deze hefbrug heeft het verlangen wel en niet weg te zijn. Om eerlijk te zijn heb ik in dit deel van de stad meestal niets te zoeken. De Brusselse kanaalzone wordt veelal gekenmerkt door industrie en is een gebied dat ik noodgedwongen kruis maar waar ik zelden bij stilsta. Aan de kant van Molenbeek en Anderlecht blijken de meeste oude fabriekspanden ingepalmd te zijn door autohandelaars. Van een daarvan, een fabriek in de Liverpoolstraat die in cilinderkoppen deed, heeft Jozef Wouters sinds een maand zijn Decoratelier gemaakt.

Het is gelegen tegenover een staaldepot waarop in grote letters de naam Jean Wauters staat. Jozef lacht als ik het voorbestemd noem omdat hij zonder twijfel al eens hetzelfde heeft gedacht. De ruimte bevindt zich in onzekere staat. Ik hou van dat punt waarop alles nog bepaald moet worden. Uit de inrichting van het ruime pand valt inderdaad nog niet af te leiden dat Jozef er zijn intrek heeft genomen.

Op het gelijkvloers is er een werkplaats waar gezaagd en getimmerd kan worden, verder zijn de muren een rustgevend mintgroene kleur en is er een oude prikklok, beide restanten van de fabriek. Dag in dag uit stond ik hier te vegen. Op de grond lag zonder te overdrijven een centimeter stof. REPAS 6 : 28 grammes de morue, 2 plats de riz et salade. En bref, un vrai régime d'haltérophiles même si on aurait la sensation de repartir dans l'eau avec des nageoires de poisson en ingurgitant toute cette morue Mi-homme mi-légende, le légendaire Hercule va mener un groupe de mercenaires afin de stopper la guerre civile qui fait rage au royaume de Thrace faire monter le Roi légitimie sur le trône.

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